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 PhreeX
 
Location: Between Orlando and Daytona, FL
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
< on 2/2/2004 1:04 PM >
|  | | | While discussing a remote site with a fellow UE'r (I mean, REALLY REMOTE, like we are talking about walking MILES just to get to the site, and it's not even visible from any major roads) ... well, once inside one of the buildings there is a door (well, a door of sorts) that is welded shut using a couple metal strips - as for what can be seen beyond the door, well, put it this way, it was enough to inspire this person to ask for my assistance gaining access, while I am an accomplished lock-picker, this sitch requires the aide of my oxy/acetylene portable rig, and while carring some 40 pounds of equiptment miles to the site doesn't exactly excite me, whats is beyond this "door" DOES ....
So what are your thoughts on actually cutting thru the strapping to get this access door open? Keep in mind that this site is VERY REMOTE and this isn't an exterior door, so it's not like it would ever be noticed ... given this location is a good number of hours away from me (but well worth it from the pics I saw) ... well, so my fellow UE'rs can access this site multiple time (as I will probably only make this trip once) I had told them that I could easily bring some welding rod and oxy weld the straps back in place, the only problem is that unless someone else in the area had as torch, they wouldn't be able to get back into that restricted area ... but by welding I would be re-securing the door...
So that's the deliema - do I re-weld the straps (cutting them to gain access is basically a given, I'm gunna do that regardless) ... but should I then re-weld the door shut, therby locking out my felow UE'rs (I mean, this site seems to be known ONLY to some forum members, so it's not like I am helping every 15 year old kid within 20 miles access this area behind the door) ... maybe do some crafty welding that would give the illusion that the doior has not been compromised, but you can still access it....
Any ideas?
And no, I am NOT going to give ANY INFORMATION about this site... where it's located, what it does/did/etc...
I just want some views on the use of cutting some straps to get into a metal door ... now if I were to re-weld it I wouldnt see ANY PROBOLEM, but again, then the only people that would be able to access whats behindthat door are those there the day I am with my rig...
//p
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HauntedPA
  
Location: Anywhere and Everywhere
Gender: Female
What do you mean the rum is gone?!
| | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 1 on 2/2/2004 1:07 PM >
| | | | I think this would fall into the..."Take only pictures leave only footsteps" category of things. Breakin in a door or using an acetylene torch for that matter is definately not something to do.
Leave it be...plain and simple.
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PhreeX
Location: Between Orlando and Daytona, FL
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 2 on 2/2/2004 1:26 PM >
| | | | But if it were to be welded back shut, then honestly, nothing would be taken but pictures and nothing would be left but foot steps ... but hey, it's more then likely something that will never materialize as access to the site is so damn difficult that I have no desire to lug the equiptmkent around with me...
Just trying to get opinions ... but honestly, if you're climbing up a fire-escape and you entre that way, in the state where this site is located, the law doesn't discern between the kid that uses a grappling hook to gain access to a second floor window, or the kid that cuts some metal straps )having worked for an attorney for several years I am fairly fimilar with the laws as they relate to these things - it's all the same, and in the end it realyl comes down to the cop that busts you, so yeah, if yer caught with a cuting torch that woulsd definitloy make you look "worse" then the kid that simply crawals thru the window - even thought they are both breaking the EXACT SAME LAW and could face the EXACT SAME PUNISHMENT... the only difference is that the formker individual could also be charged with possession of burgluary tools, then again, so could the latter kid if he had so much as a flashlight ...
But it's reallty a hypothetical thing, I don't plan on driving aomost 12 hours round-trip to cut my way in.... sorry to dissappoint those of you that know the site and had asked for my help in getting in.... but man, if the pics are ever made public of just what is behind that door, then the question of "well, if you leave the site in the EXACT SAME CONDITION AS YOU FOUND IT, is that cool?"
//p
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PAWolf
 
Not from Pennsylvania
Location: KCMO
Gender: Male
We haven't located us yet.
| |  | |  | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 3 on 2/2/2004 1:29 PM >
| | | | Well since your doing it anyway, I would strongly encourage you too weld the door shut after you cut it (I wouldn't cut it in the first place, but that's just me. However I haven't seen behind this door). If you don't think your skills are very good with torch welding your should really practice at home before you crack this door open. If you break it open it's your responsibility to put it back as you found it. It's welded shut for a good reason I'm sure, and if your willing to take the risk of seeing what's behind it you shouldn't endanger other people by leaving it unlocked.
Torch welding is really hard and slow, I consider myself a pretty decent wire feed welder but when it comes to torch welding I'm really poor. My best suggestion on procedure would be to try and melt the original bead, and re-weld it when you leave.
Think about what your doing. Asses the risks and make sure your making the right decision. And above all, take good pictures of what's behind that door. 
Make Beer, Not War. |
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PhreeX
Location: Between Orlando and Daytona, FL
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 4 on 2/2/2004 2:16 PM >
| | | | Oh, I am certified in MIG, TIG, electric/Stick, Heli-Arc, Fusion (just re-melting the cut beads back together) as well as usijng some solid weldng rod to weld it, so yeah, if I decided to do this (and what I meant was IF I decied to to go I would bring thr torch and go for it) ... so the cutting part is easy (I was told the strips are no more then about 1/2" thick, only two of them) so it would be easy to make a nice, smooth cut, and seeing what I have to work with, you're right, I might be able to simply use fusion welding and not evne need the welding rod (though the rod would make it a lot stronger, especially if I cut each way at and angle and then could use the rod for a full penetration weld) ....
But yes, it's all about assessing the situation - if I slice the stripping open and see something in there that just makes me say "oh, shit, so THATS why out of this compound with holes in the walls big enough to drive a truck though, THATS why they decided to wel that door shut... but really, I wish I could elaborate as to what is behind this magic door .... and of course there would be a fire extinguisher on hand, but the "door implemennt" is not some door of mystery, there are holes you can look thru it....
So as it stands:
1) If I go with my torch I will make a nice sharp cut provided the people I go with (some are posters to this site) have no objections - it wasn't my idea anyway, I was approached but when I saw the pics I was all about it...
2) Everything will be welded back together, as strong as, if not much stronger then it was in the first place ...
FYI I am working with the portable setup - a 20cf Oxygen tank and 10cf Acetylene tank wit the MC to POL acetylene adapter so I can fit my industrial regulators onto the little valve on the 10cf tank, allowing me to use my heavier duty Victor torch, I would bring a spare tank of each gas just incase I happened to run out mid job..
But hey, the more I try to defend what I'd be doing the more I am ready to say "fuck it, lets just wait for sdomeone else to do it for us" ..]
//p
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PAWolf
Not from Pennsylvania
Location: KCMO
Gender: Male
We haven't located us yet.
| | | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 5 on 2/2/2004 2:41 PM >
| | | | If you decided to do it I for one would not look down upon you at all for doing so. You seem like you really know your stuff too. Good luck.
Make Beer, Not War. |
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PhreeX
Location: Between Orlando and Daytona, FL
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 6 on 2/2/2004 2:44 PM >
| | | | And I thank you for your support! Especially in light of those that have sent me PM's saying how wrong it would be (evne if i welded it all back, probably 10x then it was to begin with...
Well, I'm of to sleep, i will check back atthis thread in the evening...
//p
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F A S T
Location: Oakland, CA
Gender: Male
Coastal Wind
| | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 7 on 2/2/2004 3:00 PM >
| | | | Do it. And bring us some pictures of the location and the door! As long as its welded back upon return there is no harm, but for your sake I hope it's not welded shut for a reason, like radiation or something. Perhaps no one intended for anyone to tread back there.
Good luck!
UEXplorer
F A S T |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | |  | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 8 on 2/2/2004 3:58 PM >
| | | | I think I should chime in here. I'm one of the people in the vicinity of this place, so yeah it's somewhere in the southern half of Florida, and I know quite a bit about the location. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't encourage anyone to use cutting tools to get into a building, but this is an odd circumstance.
Here are a few facts about the place:
1. The location was sold off by the original owner to the state, and will never be used again for it's originally intended purpose. The state agency that bought it, has turned the land into a protected natural area, so the buildings will not be rebuilt and will either be left to rot or be torn down at some point.
2. The site has been damaged by several hurricanes, the building is in some places falling apart.
3. The stuff be0hind the door is a once in a lifetime kind of find, a relic you could say. I can honestly say that nobody else has ever come across something like this (at least not that they've made public).
4. The area past the door is being flooded over time with the rain. It is still currently possible to see what lies past the door, but in some time, it will be gone, completely flooded.
5. This site is not visited by taggers and other people just hanging out like other places due to the remoteness of the location. There is some evidence of the occasional visitor (a coke bottle here and there), but they seem few and far between.
In this case, I see using the torch to open the door as ok, because the site would be returned to it's original condition afterwards and it would be documenting something that is already deteriorating and will be totally gone in some time. It would be a shame if something like this were left completely forgotten and unseen by anyone, it is for sure that it will be flooded past the point where it will become inaccessible sometime soon. Unfortunately, this is pretty much all the information I can reveal about the location at the current time.
I say go for it, and reseal it afterwards. The site will be left in it's original condition, the probability of getting caught is virtually non-existent (due to the remoteness), and as a result this site would be preserved and documented instead of left to fall apart and never be seen again.
[last edit 2/2/2004 3:59 PM by Shane - edited 1 times]
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Chainsaw
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Underground, Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 9 on 2/2/2004 5:00 PM >
| | | | I think you should reseal it if you open it.
You sound experienced so I assume you have determined there are no combustibles stored on the other side of the door?
I would also strongly recommend doing a thorough recon to make sure there is no other way in. Home Depot sells a portable appgas/oxy rig that should do the trick for like $40 - weighs around 20lbs.
Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
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PonyGrl420
Location: NY
Gender: Female
huh??
| |  | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 10 on 2/2/2004 5:32 PM >
| | | | Definitely reseal it. I don’t have a problem removing this to get into a place it the place it worth it, but def put it back the way it was. Plus after you having to go through all this work wouldn’t it suck seeing other people be able to just walk in?
I hope your planning on showing us pics of whatever is behind this door ;)
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 11 on 2/2/2004 5:42 PM >
| | | | Go for it, but re-seal it afterwards. If it's something really worth it (which it sounds like) then maybe you could take some of the other local explorers with you, make a big expedition out of it, and then re-seal it afterwards (I definitely think it should be re-sealed, but you should also try to give the others a look before you do that).
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 12 on 2/2/2004 5:46 PM >
|  | | | Seems like one of those things.
Once upon a time, all UEM would have had to do to gain access to a place we were likely to never see again was cut one padlock with some bolt shears. This place was something we'd been questing for almost since the group was founded, it was tantalizingly right in front of us. Sealed only by a gate and a padlock.
We let it be. We're still hoping that one day someone will leave the whole thing wide open but we're not counting on it.
Sometimes you have to let it go.
That said, it does sound like you've already made your decision, and in that case, resealing it is definitely the thing to do. I'm glad you appear to know what you're doing.
This is a bit of a morals vs. explorer's instincts thing. Believe me, I understand.
All I can say is good luck, get some good pics, and don't let this set a precedent for you. This seems like a special case, so I'm not really against it, but don't let it turn you into someone who habitually breaks and enters to explore.
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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PAWolf
Not from Pennsylvania
Location: KCMO
Gender: Male
We haven't located us yet.
| | | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 13 on 2/2/2004 6:13 PM >
| | | | Does this have something to do with the space program? I'm really curious about this place now. PM me if you don't want to say publicly. I promise I won't tell anyone. Explorer's Honor
Make Beer, Not War. |
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Uncle Fester
| | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 14 on 2/2/2004 6:18 PM >
| | | | It's probably full of dynamite. Or maybe Al Capone's tomb or Mel's Hole.
But yeah, you only live once so go for it...and then post the results in the DB.
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 15 on 2/2/2004 6:25 PM >
| | | | Posted by PAWolf
Does this have something to do with the space program? I'm really curious about this place now. PM me if you don't want to say publicly. I promise I won't tell anyone. Explorer's Honor
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Sorry, can't share any more details than what I already have without compromising the location. Rest assured, when we are done with this place, you will all hear about it.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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asdafaf
Location: oe'r yonder
I have always been here before.
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 16 on 2/2/2004 8:24 PM >
| | | | I know what the place is and what the THING is, and I say you go for it!!!
I'm looking for software engineers to hire at Amazon. |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 17 on 2/2/2004 8:29 PM >
|  | | | I have to agree. Get in, seal it up again, and revel in the awe of what you saw ;)
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 18 on 2/2/2004 8:41 PM >
| | | | I'm with asdafaf and Jester. I know what's in there, so get your asses through that door. What are you waiting for? GO! You will thank yourselves for it.
C.
What, are you still here? Get your ass in gear!
Disgruntled. |
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Ferret
Location: Toronto
| | Re: Door welded shut - break out the oxy torch or no?
<Reply # 19 on 2/2/2004 9:03 PM >
| | | | So long as the site is left in the condition you found it, I have no problem with what you're doing. That being said, I would also scout out a place to hide said welding equipment should anything resembling security/ law enforcement appear. A cutting torch is not as easy to explain as a flashlight.
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